Doubt you guys watched the houston utah game, but once again, a flop changed the game. AK threw his arms up, and it was enough to get a call from the ref when it was an off the ball foul with 40 seconds to go in a play off game where Houston was down 3 and shooting a three pointer, which went in.
I just wish they would let em play. I couldn't even watch the Was-Cle game cause it was halted every other play because of some call.
Let em play!
18 comments:
agreed. we at the very least need some consistency.
i feel like the refs are the biggest problem with the NBA (even bigger than the seeding thing) and also the easiest one to remedy. here's my idea:
robots
we'll get some of those ones from I, Robot. they seemed pretty smart. and if they distort the rules and start to murder all of our favorite NBA players, we'll just do like they did with that new ball and roll back to the old way. then maybe we will appreciate the refs we have, and get some fresh new faces on the court at the same time. everyone wins!
robots!
"Kirilenko embellished the contact with a swan dive into the crowd that would have made Greg Louganis proud. Meanwhile, replays seemed to show referee Tony Brothers looking away from the play until he noticed Kirilenko completing his second somersault and tucking into the pike position, and only then making the call. It wasn't his call anyway -- the outside ref is supposed to make it, and he took a pass. "
So, it wasn't even his call. This is the sort of BS, that makes me think the refs have other motivations behind their calls.
I watched Houston. I hated seeing the game decided like that too.
Soccer is tainting basketball. All of the worst floppers are from countries were soccer is really popular.
The imported NBA floppers probably figure they aren't really flopping that much; since, in soccer players are routinely carried off the field on a strecher; and then, they are playing again 5-10 minutes later. I've seen guys carried out on a strecher twice in the same game, of course they came back after the second time too.
Though, maybe russia isn't the biggest soccer country. Still, as a general rule, it seems to hold up pretty well. Varaejo, Dirk, Ginoboli. Ginoboli is not as bad; but still, he is a flopper.
What are you quoting there Patrick?
On a related note, i love when some guy goes flying out a bounds, and there is no whistle. So the guy with the ball is just standing there, "Well, i guess i'll lay it up, no one around."
Again the trifecta:)
One more thing, i only watched like the first 10 minutes of CLE-WASH, but those guys were really hitting the hell out of eachother. So, while it was really boring, i didn't think the calls were bad.
I'm down with the robots. Or, maybe impartial aliens.
Yea, Washington made it part of their game plan to hit Bron-chitis. Didn't work though.
That quote was from some guy on ESPN.
They could start doing two things right away that are very simple:
Five refs. This seems like a no brainer. There are five players on each team on the court and five matchups. Each ref watches one matchup. There would be less missed calls which are annoying and they would make better calls away from the ball.
The second thing would be to give a technical foul if there was an obvious flop. Don't get out of hand here, maybe give one a game. But eventually players will stop flopping. Because right now flopping is mostly beneficial. I'd say that the flopper gets a call about 75% of the time. So it's worth doing. If there was even a chance of getting a "T" coaches will tell their players to stop flopping.
Here here Jimi!
Stu Jackson, NBA executive vice president, basketball operations, on Tuesday agreed with the Rockets' contention that Jazz forward Andrei Kirilenko flopped on a crucial last-minute call Monday, but said the offensive foul called on Rockets forward Luis Scola with 45.4 seconds remaining in the loss to the Jazz was ruled correctly, anyway.
"It was a correct call," Jackson said. "Scola extends his arm illegally and makes contact with Kirilenko, then Kirilenko brings undo attention to the play by flopping. ...
"Referees have to make judgments consistently throughout the game with respect to whether or not contact is illegal or marginal. ... When contact is made and judged to be illegal, it has to be called regardless of the game situation."
Its like Van Gundy said, when officials admit they made a mistake, the players calm down. Its when they try to justify a bad call that they get mad.
First, let me say that I let out such a loud groan when I watched the flop/foul-call, Mollie came in from the other room to make sure I was ok. It was ridiculous and this is precisely the reason why so many refs usually 'let the players play' (i.e. less likely to call cheap fouls) in the waning minutes of a game. It's unfortunate that this ref didn't adhere to that philosophy. Nobody wants to have a ref decide the game - it's bad for the game as a whole.
I completely agree with Jimi's recommendations. Crowding may have to be addressed but that's a small (solvable) problem in relation to the fix. The technical for flops is a pretty good idea too. I've heard Van Gundy advocate that for a while.
I think the difficulty comes in defining flop without amputating a perfectly reasonable part of the game. Without proper definition it's too much of a subjective call (and is still one in the end but I don't see that as an issue; technicals are fairly subjective as they stand). An example would be an instance that Ginobili is truly hacked across the arms in a crowd under the basket. Doesn't he have the right to make that more obvious to a referee? If so, then I guess it's technically not a flop as long as he was fouled? Another example might be Derek Fisher. I personally wouldn't consider his charge taking technique as flopping but he certainly puts all of his weight on his heels to make sure the hit puts him on his ass. I'm in agreement, something should be done but the quick definition of: 'excessive display intended to draw a foul call' may not be specific enough to avoid creating more problems. I'm sure better minds can make a go of it than me though so there's definitely hope.
Now... for the couple points that I don't really want to make because I sound like a pompous ass even to myself and I don't whole heartedly agree with them but they should be at least brought into the conversation. (1) The foul call didn't cause the Rockets to lose the game; they had 47.5 minutes before that point to put themselves in the position to win. (2) T-Mac warrants some criticism for his lack of success in the playoffs.
I've probably listened to too much Phil Jackson for my own good because I know point #1 above is based, at least in part, on his philosophy. Though I know he'd skewer the refs publicly with hopes of getting more calls in the next game (which actually has a great track record of success if only for one game), he's always been an advocate of accountability for success from players alone. In every game there are going to be bad calls. In some games (especially road games), a team may even get treated noticeably different from a ref perspective (mostly having to do with the crowd fueling aggressiveness which yields better calls). It is up to the players, though, to keep the refs from being a major factor. Win the game long before the last 30 seconds and you won't have to worry about it. A big part of what makes a winning team is their collective ability to fight through adversity; ideally to even thrive off of it. No excuses - that's probably his philosophy boiled down. That said; I think in the Rocket's situation actually deserves an excuse. I mean they hung in with a talented Utah team without their starting Center and PG. They're so incredibly short handed... buut...
They're guard play was remarkable. In my eyes, this game was lost by their bigs. Hayes played admirably but was really the only one that seemed to have the ability to hold his ground in the paint. I put most of the responsibility on (a) Scola's 'defense' of Okur and (b) the inability to rebound by Scola/Landry/Mutombo. They gave up too many opportunities for 2nd chance points. The box score alone doesn't do the situation justice (though it does hint to it: 2 rebounds by landry/deke in 26 minutes and 7 total in 70 minutes when you add Scola). They were only out rebounded by 5 (46-41) but there had to be 7-10 times during the game that a rebound bounced off of 1-2 Rockets' hands before landing in a Jazz player's lap. With increasing intensity, I found myself screaming by fourth quarter: "Can anyone fucking wrap their hands around the ball except Battier and TMac!!??!!" It was legitimately making me insane.
Point #2 is a difficult one for me to make after the first 3 quarters we saw from TMac. At the same time, it is precisely this type of play that makes everyone set the bar so high for him. Obviously he can do it when he’s motivated to; why’s it so hard to get him motivated? And I understand he was tired but conditioning is part of the game. Not saying everyone has to be Michael Jordan but as an example, he didn’t become MJ by giving into fatigue. You think Kobe would saunter around in the 4th quarter if he was exhausted (no, but he might saunter around then entire next game because he was pouting)? He also seemed way too content to brush his 1st round losses off as team losses. It is absolutely true, but it’s also the mentality of someone who can justify giving up the fight to fatigue in the 4th quarter of a must win game.
I agree with your statements, but to say that the Rockets lost the game before the refs interceeded is to dismiss what they are doing in the first place. That is, they are playing toe to toe without their best players.
I know you said that, but I think it should be said without any qualifications.
So what if their rookie center didn't play strong enough D? He's a rookie!
So what if their 42 year old center couldn't hold onto the ball...HE'S FUCKING OLD!
Let them play!
Here here Jimi!
======
Most of the time i am pretty cool with reffing. For basically what Jeremy says. i normally figure bad calls go both ways; so a loss is still the team's fault.
There are times though, where one team gets hit more. It usually take me like two or three horrible calls down the stretch against the pistons for me to mention the refs.
Not that i don't think there is room for improvement. I like the idea of 5 refs.
Also, i don't know how it happens, but dudes like Lebron do get away with more sometimes. I don't think it is anywhere near the conspiracy Rasheed seems to think it is. He says something like the NBA has its "babydolls" that it protects at all costs.
But i do remember watching this lebron fastbreak last year (on youtube), where he ran all the way from half court without dribbling. Such a feat may be possible; but, in this instance, it was a hugely obvious travel-which wasn't called.
and hey, revisit PHX-SAS thread, i posted a question there.
and hey, revisit PHX-SAS thread, i posted a question there.
Man, I really can't stand the reffing in today's NBA. There must be a questionable call on every other play.
Surely they can do something to take the guessing work out of these calls.
Specifically the charge call. The muthafucker could go either way at least half the time.
i feel like the refs are the biggest problem with the NBA (even bigger than the seeding thing)
===========================
Couldn't agree more. If there was one thing that would get me to quit watching, it would be these dumb ass refs.
thats why i'm saying... robots.
it worked for tennis
Post a Comment